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  1.  
    This is kind of an aside to the conversation about the CD release show at the Hiro in March...

    RC and Stony - you both have mentioned that your kids play music so I wanted to get your take on our situation... I've got a budding musician on my hands too, but he's only six and we're not sure what's the best direction to go in at this stage - if any. He has an aptitude for singing and has expressed interest in learning to play instruments. I want to make sure he gets a solid foundation in music theory and learns how to sing properly, but I'm worried about starting too early and making it a drudgery... A few vocalists/prof. choir directors we've talked to have said that the best thing is just to let him keep singing on his own and start lessons in a couple years and we've read that eight or nine is a better age to start guitar lessons, but at the same time, we want to support him in his interests, so... what to do? I'm curious about how your kids found music and what you did to help them along... (As long as it doesn't interfer with my concert-going schedule ;) Thanks!
    • CommentAuthorearlbny
    • CommentTimeFeb 9th 2012
     
    My cousin plays with School of Rock. He's 12 and plays the Bass. His brother is 10 and plays the Drums. I suggest we get all the kids together and have them open for Yarn at the Hiro.
  2.  
    "a solid foundation in music theory and learns how to sing properly, but I'm worried about starting too early and making it a drudgery... "

    I think it's one situation where ya want to put the cart before the horse so to speak. The music theory piece can come at any point past the realization that playing music is fun. I think you're correct to fear drudgery. We were fortunate to have a terrific music teacher at our son's school. He had a knack right quick but he really flourished under Mr Olds. Then at about 10 when it was clear that this was gonna stick, for some reason we tore a hanging paper tag off a public bulletin board for the first time in our lives and met Jake's teacher who's still with him three years later. Sam brought his laptop on the very first day and showed Jake where to put his fingers to strum any song he chose. At first we just kind of took it in but in short order, it was clear that Sam knew what he was doing. Now Jake can run up and down each string and announce each note up and down the scale with ease.

    "A few vocalists/prof. choir directors we've talked to have said that the best thing is just to let him keep singing on his own and start lessons in a couple years and we've read that eight or nine is a better age to start guitar lessons"

    I agree about the singing but hell, a small junior size guitar to strum around with can't hurt anything. Jake strummed some guitar at 6 or 7 yrs but it took some time before he really got hooked enough to work at it............real sad for all of us though, that Anson Olds was killed this past fall in an auto accident. When I drive Jake in early for music stuff in the mornings, we have to go past the crash site. He was just early 50s so it was terrible....we will always be so thankful and feel like we owed him so much.

    So best of luck with it all, it's amazing to watch them develop~
  3.  
    Thanks, RC! You make a good point about letting music be fun first - perhaps that would drive him to want to learn more rather than us pulling him along. I guess a good example would be that there's been a couple times recently where he's asked me how to hold a note for an extended period, so I taught him a little about breath control then we made a game out of seeing who could hold the note the longest. Maybe for the time being I should just sit tight and wait for more opportunities like that... We would just hate ourselves if we screwed up this particular one! (One more topic for his therapist... ;)

    I just looked up Anson Olds and am so sorry to learn of his passing - great teachers are absolute treasures and it's truly tragic when one goes before their time.

    earlbny, my kids would be down with that - just need to make the set around 6:00, so they can make bedtime at 7:30 :)
  4.  
    Hey Amy,
    whoa... gotta think about this one so I can give you a decent reply, but I've got a crazy weekend coming up... give me a couple of days to wrap my head around it and maybe you can learn from my mistakes!
  5.  
    You guys are really kind to give this your consideration! Thanks so much for the input - looking forward to any nuggets of wisdom you may be able to impart, Stony! :)
  6.  
    Ok Amy,
    First of all I want to preface this with the simple fact that I am in no position to give advice. I can only give you a brief history of my experiences and what I’ve gained from them. It’s obvious that everyone on here is a lover of music. It’s just natural that we want to share that with our kids as well. I came from a musical family, but it was never something that was encouraged in me... my parents belonged to the cocktail generation and I was raised in front of a TV... but music, it’s part of me... like breathing. Can’t live without it. I had a renaissance man for a grandfather, funny, artistic, loved by all. I remember the joy he got playing his violin, or his banjo, or his cornet... I remember the special bond he had with my great aunt who he played music with. I took care of her in her later years, up until age 99 when she passed. She played music until she was 98 and nearly deaf. My grandfather played until the cancer stole him away from me when I was young.
    When I became a parent I looked around at all the other parents, pushing their kids into sports, dance, ect. I knew that time in sports was fleeting, maybe one injury away... but music? Hell-- you can do that all your life. I thought music lessons would be the ultimate gift I could give my children... to have something that can never be taken away, never go out of style, never become old. I knew the research on brain science, that if you speak a different language or play music, at an early age, it will actually go into a different part of the brain than if you learn it when you are older, so I started mine young. I considered music a vital and required part of their education.
    To tell you about my kids they are two years apart and if you look in the dictionary under “sibling rivalry” there is probably a picture of them. They are oil and water... they don’t mix. Music is the only thing that they both share.
    I spent countless dollars on music lessons, countless hours driving them around.... I live in a rural area and I never had really good teachers, I never was a tiger mom, I was never good at making them practice. I let them move from one instrument to another. It didn’t matter to me what they were playing, just as long as they played something. My oldest, my daughter, is self motivated and driven. My son was always the one who was listening to music, singing in the shower, investigating different musical genres...I always thought he would be the one to latch onto it more, basically because he was just more of a natural at it than his sister. But he’s a loner. He’d rather toss a line in a pond than be the star of a school play. Music came easy to him so he didn’t try at all... he could fake his way through a lesson at an early age so he never learned to work at it. Now that he’s reached the point that he really does have to put forth effort, he’s set it aside. I let him. I don’t know if pestering him to practice made it loose it’s magic & turned it into a punishment somehow. I just know I’ve got one who will play the same song for hours trying to perfect every note, and even though she’s not a natural, she tries really hard and loves it. The other one barely plays a song all the way through. Don’t get me wrong, he likes it, he just isn’t motivated. I really didn’t do anything differently with him... it’s just his personality. Sometimes I wonder if I found the right teacher it would motivate him again, sometimes I wonder if I threw a lot of money away, and sometimes I think it’s something he’ll grow out of, maybe next week, maybe next year, who knows...
  7.  
    One time the Yarn guys stayed at our house in between gigs and I was in conversation with Andrew about a musician that we both admire who occasionally joins Yarn on stage. He mentioned, with quiet eloquence, how he admired how this man played, not because he played perfectly, but because of the joy he got out of making the music. He said he felt that he personally had wasted a lot of time when he was young trying to perfect his playing. I was so glad he said that in front of my daughter, but you know what? She still plays the same song over and over and over, trying to make it perfect. (Drives me crazy) I do believe, however, that so many artists must go through this self required mastery in order to gain the knowledge to evolve their music making into something that is truly beautiful and organic. Sometimes the beauty is in the imperfection and improvisation, the element of surprise. We speak of it on this site- would we travel to see a band because they put on the same show night after night? No, we have the joy of hearing songs evolve over time. Songs that spread their wings and fly... not endless jamming, but a give and take. A dance between musicians that when everyone is on the same page can be truly magical.
    Neither one of my kids is taking lessons now, but my daughter wants to restart. My son-- well, he’s 15. I can’t motivate him, I think it has to be about him wanting to do it now. I gave him the tools to work with, now the ball is in his court. I know kids his age that got a guitar for Christmas and have spent countless hours self-teaching themselves with youtube videos. I bet they are already better than my son.
    You can’t motivate someone to love something, it just has to develop in them. I don’t know if it will in him.
    My advice to you is that if your kid wants lessons, get him lessons. I don’t know about a smaller guitar. I think you have to be careful and find something easy to play and with a good sound. (harder in a guitar?) I started my kids in violin cause you can get scaled down versions from 1/16 to 3/4. (and can rent them or pick them up cheap at garage sales) You can easily make the jump from violin to mandolin or guitar. If he starts with violin, you could reward him for his had work and practice later when he’s big enough with a full size guitar (this would give him a goal to work for) I don’t know about voice lessons... I do know that some of the best singers of my kids friends have never had a voice lesson. (and one could literally sing on Broadway)
    Be sure to recognize if it’s time to move to another teacher and don’t be afraid to do it. I had great relationships with my kids teachers, and I didn’t move on when I should have. Kids can outgrow teachers like they do clothes, but a great teacher can really inspire a kid.
    Try not to turn practice into a punishment. My husband & I would sometimes get so frustrated at my son that we’d be tough on him. Looking back I don’t think that helped the cause a bit.
    Always accept that your child is going to grow and change and go through periods of rebellion. Recognize that what you want for your child may not be what they want. Accept that this should never be about you and living your dreams through them, but about giving them an opportunity. Don’t beat yourself up if they don’t take it. Just be proud of yourself for offering it to them as a gift.
    I don’t know what will happen with my kids and the music... But I do know they truly love it, and will always be consumers of great music. Do I think they will become musicians? Hell no. I just know that every once in a while, they sit down together and try to figure out a song, and you see the look on their faces, and well... the rivalry disappears and oil and water really do mix. It’s then that I receive the greatest joy, and all the money, time, effort...well.... it was all worth it. I can honestly say that I would rather witness my kids playing together in my living room than go to a thousand Yarn shows... It brings me that much joy.
    I know that my kids still have a good deal of changing and growing ahead of them. I wonder how music will affect their lives in years to come. I’m curious to find out how this will all play out....

    I have a feeling that this thread will be open for many years to come. I’m curious to find out what happens with your kids. Good luck to all of you... The love you have for your children is so apparent on this site that I can’t help thinking that any decisions you make concerning them will turn out for the best.
  8.  
    .....good avice Stoney....as in all things child-rearing, all you can really do is teach by example and set 'em on the right course....the rest is up to them.

    I poked around under admin and I can't find anywhere where I can change your name and have it associated with your previous posts. You might try to see if your own "account" page will let you.

    Of course, you could always register under a new name; I just don't know how to keep your posts with the new name~
  9.  
    Wow, Stony - thank you so much for such a thoughtful, insightful response! It's really interesting to get the perspectives of parents further along than me. You make some really great points on how to keep myself centered while watching his journey. For me, I definitely don't struggle with trying to live vicariously or anything like that - mostly I just worry that I'm not doing enough/the right thing/etc (a worry that's not limited to just music :) so I really like your idea of reminding myself that I'm giving him the gift of opportunity (whatever that may be for whatever stage he's at) and that's the best I can do. Like you said, there's so much info out there suggesting that starting at an early age is the best that it's hard not to feel the pressure to get them into something (and oh yes - tiger moms... yikes!)

    So maybe the fact that he's not asking for lessons now is indication that he's not ready - which I think also echos RC's response about letting him have fun with it first... I guess I'll wait patiently for the time being - and just keep singing in the car; having dance parties in the living room; and bringing him to live music whenever I get the chance...

    Thanks again for the input, guys! I also hope to see this thread open for some time to come! I'd love to hear how everyone's kids are evolving and I know I'll be coming back to the topic to reread your experiences and thoughts on it all! Thanks!!!