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    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2010
    I see a lot of posts on fan forums where someone says, "I hope this got taped." or "Were there any tapers?". We are lucky here at 5guitars that there are so many folks willing to go out and tape Yarn. I think more people would get into this hobby if they knew how inexpensively they could get started. Before I got into taping, I assumed I would have to lay out a few grand to get a decent rig. The main gear chain in most of my recordings cost less than $750 including stand and mount. My backup recorder is usually used for soundboard recordings, but sometimes I run two sets of mics just for fun. Here is an audience recording from my backup rig that cost around $250:


    Taping isn't for everyone. There is a certain loss of enjoyment on the nights when you block your stand by yourself and forgo bathroom breaks only to have a your recording ruined by chatty drunks. But then there are the nights when you can clamp to a rail, put your recorder somewhere safe and pull a really nice recording with little or no effort. Then there is the adulation of millions of fans (well maybe 5 or 6 fans) and the knowledge that you just captured a moment in musical history that will not be repeated.

    I became a taper after I got into the music of a taper-friendly artist. On his fan forum site and listserv there were people trading live shows and I jumped in and amassed a nice collection of live shows. The next time I went to a show, there was a taper there and I asked him a few questions. He only did board patches, but he was capturing shows that would otherwise never be heard again. We are still friends. I decided then that I would become a taper and give back.

    I bought a minidisc recorder and showed up at a venue and asked the sound guy for a patch. He gave me a pigtail to plug into. It was a strange beast that I now know is XLR. It did not connect to an 1/8" patch cord. So the next show, I come in with every interconnect I thought I could possibly need to connect to a soundboard. This venue did not allow board patches. At this point I knew I'd need mics at some point if I were going to be a taper. I stumbled along and got a nice board tape at a house concert, then I found taperssection.com. I could have saved myself a lot of grief and trial and error if I had just found that forum sooner. I bought a nicer recorder and some external mics soon after. The mics showed up just before a show I wanted to tape and I had no time to put together a mounting solution, so I patched from the board again and missed the LINE/MIC switch on the side and ended up getting a tape of nothing.

    The first time I flew mics was at a festival and there were three other tapers set up at the stage where I was taping. My stand at that time was a painter's pole. The mounting bar was attached at the top with the cut-off end of a paint roller handle. I duct-taped the pole to a camp chair and had my nephew sit in it to weigh it down. I ran cardioid (directional) and loaner omnidirectional mics that night. One taper was kind of watching me with interest. I confessed the obvious, that I was a newb with the most ghetto rig on the planet and that I had no clue how any of the equipment sounded. He said, "Dude, you're running four channels of lossless audio. Ain't nuthin' ghetto 'bout that." We are still friends today.

    After that I started going down to a local venue a couple of times a week and just taping any band that happened to be playing. I learned where to set up, which mics to use and the favorite beer of each sound guy. My tapes got better. I realized that for about 14 or 15 years I had been sitting on my couch or hanging at a friend's place while all this great local live music was going on around me. I was the guy who would go down to the arena for a couple of shows a year. And overpay for a ticket and a few beers.Taping turned me on to a scene I had been totally oblivious to. This year I've been to 77 different shows with almost 100 different bands on the bill. I taped 52 of those. Last December I answered a call for tapers over on taperssection.com and went to see a band I'd never heard of called Yarn. I was blown away. Thanks for the spreading the word, bgreen! I thought I would be bored by now, having seen a band 13 times in 11 months, with 3 more shows in the next month. Nope. I can't wait for Friday night to see my (and your) favorite band. I know it will be an audience recording, 'cause that venue still ain't giving out patches.
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2010
    Post was too long so here's the rest:

    This started our as a post to encourage people to start taping, but I ended up going off-course a bit. I guess my point is that taping has brought me immeasurable enjoyment, introduced me to new friends, and changed my outlook on what good music really is. If anyone is interested in becoming a taper, http://taperssection.com/index.php is an invaluable resource. You could start out doing board patches with a $99 recorder and a $5 cable. I could say more, but it's 5:00 and I gotta leave work now.
    ...11/14/99...I'm heading into the Civic Center in Worcester, MA to stealth tape a show. I've got a DAT deck down my shorts and a mic cord in my pocket. I don't know why I left the fuckin' mic cord in my pocket and unfortunately, neither did the security dude who found it on a simple pat down. He pulled me aside and hassled me pretty good. The band would be out soon but luckily, my best stuttering and forlorne looks got me free with the deck and mic cord. I hooked up with my bud who snuck in the microphone. Got to the men's room and rigged up with a cord running down a black shirt, black hose over the mic screen. Raced down to the floor front and center while the band was walking out on stage as I pulled out the deck. Hit record,....waiting precious seconds for it to load......release the pause and with 3 seconds to spare.......


    .....ha ha, still have that one with the finest version of Highlands I ever heard~

    Note: hopped is talking about permitted recording and not stealthing. It's not always so nerve wracking ;)
    • CommentAuthorBrouche
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2010
    I'd get into it, but I already have a friend that tapes nearly every show I'm interested in :)
    In 1993 my buddy Jack bought a D5 cassette recorder and we began to tape Grateful Dead shows. Of course, that ended a couple of years later but we quickly had upgraded to a D8 DAT recorder....similar to what we still run. We have taped hundreds of shows since then as we've gotten pretty good at stealthing. Many artists have the same foresight as Yarn and realize that allowing taping only increases your audience while taking nothing out of your pockets. Unless you're recording and selling your lives shows at which point me and hooped would gladly leave the gear home and buy it from the band.

    I was chatting with Jack the other night and we're ready to upgrade to a hard drive recorder. I just haven't gotten the chance to really research stuff yet. Any suggestions hopped?
    • CommentAuthorearlbny
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2010
    Great thread. One of these days when I win the lotto I will travel around the world tapping shows. I have always wanted to get into tapping. In the meantime I will stick to writing concert reviews.
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2010

    What kinda budget are you looking at?

    Recorders can range from $99-6,000 or more depending on the bells and whistles and manufacturer. Here are some comparison charts. None are completely up to date and prices have dropped on many of them, but you can get an idea of what's out there:



    • CommentAuthorsuemck2
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2010
    you forgot about the bonus of women trying to buy you beer ;)
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2010
    Oh yeah, that part rocks, too. See you tomorrow night! Yarn in an em-effin' coffeehouse!
    Thursday, December 2 - The Otter House, Fredericksburg, VA
    Friday, December 3 - Ashland Coffee & Tea, Ashland, VA
    Saturday, December 4 - The Southern, Charlottesville, VA

    We clearly need a VA taper!
    • CommentAuthorBrouche
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2010
    I know at least two of those dates are covered. Hopped and I are going to be at the Ashland and Southern Shows.
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2010
    There are three tapers on the Fredericksburg show and at least two for Ashland and C'ville. taperjeff is in C'ville and makes it to shows all over VA, I believe.
    • CommentAuthorbgreen
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2010
    Chuck T's on for the cville show too, hoping he can make another matrix. His recording from the festy is pretty nice.
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2011 edited
    "Is this a good deal? http://cgi.ebay.com/TASCAM-DR-08-Professional-Portable-Recorder-NEW-DR08-/310251857024?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item483c73a480"

    earlbny, that's a $20 pair of headphones and two $5 cables bundled with it, so Sound Professionals is probably still a better deal at $119.00. They also frequently have headphones on clearance. If you plan to use the internal mics, you won't need the cables right now. If you plan to patch into the soundboard, you'll need the RCA to 1/8" mini. That with some 1/4" to RCA adapters ($6 for two at RadioShack) will get you hooked up to most soundboards. You'll need some XLR to 1/8" mini or RCA adapters for some boards.


    I would recommend some headphones to monitor the sound of your recording. If you get a board patch and the feed is not well balanced (and it rarely is), you'll end up with a tape that is heavy on drums and vocals or whatever the SG needs to push through the PA to make the sound balance with the amps on-stage. If you get there and can monitor during sound check and the board feed is not good, you can just run internals.If you find a really nice sound guy, they may even let you mix an output channel to your own taste.

    Also, you can call or use the live chat at Sound Professionals and possibly get a better deal. They are usually pretty cheap, but it doesn't hurt to try.
    • CommentAuthorearlbny
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2011
    Thanks for the extra info. I will have to do a little more homework and think about it. I already a pair of head phones like that and a radio shack in town.
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2011
    SoundPros is offering an additional 10% off on pre-orders of the new Tascam DR-05 for taperssection members. Sounds like it is an improvement over the DR-07 and gets much better battery life. I'm thinking of picking one up just for the hell of it. Would be a good starting point for a newb who didn't want to spend much money. It will record up to 24bit/96khz. The internals are omnis so they may be best used with a homemade baffle of some sort (tools required: cardboard, knife, 5 minutes of your time). This would put this $99.99 recorder at $90:

    promo code: 10offtascamdr05

    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2011
    The Tascam DR-08 like Andrew has been using is now $74.99 at B&H with free shipping, if anyone thinks they might want to capture some shows, this is a good deal on one of the better low-end recorders and you could easily add mics and pre-amp in the future:

    • CommentTimeDec 13th 2011
    Bump for the recorder linked above. Now $69.00
    • CommentAuthorearlbny
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011 edited
    That Tascam DR-08 was too good of an offer to pass up. So I bought myself a present. I have only had it a week but so far I love this thing. It's so easy to use. I somehow managed to record my 1st show and get it on my computer. I then did some research and downloaded Audacity. Now I am stuck. I labeled all of the tracks but I can't seem to save them as individual songs. When I go to export them it only exports track 1. Am I doing something wrong or did I miss a step? BTW what editing programs do all of you use? any help will be greatly appreciated.
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
    Get a program called CDWave. It is shareware and is fully functional. It is the easiest way to cut a large file into tracks and will export as wav, flac, mp3, etc. It cuts on sector boundaries so you don't have to worry about Sector Boundary Errors.

    I've never tried to track in Audacity, though it is possible. It is more work and less intuitive than CDWave.
    • CommentAuthorearlbny
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
    Thanks for the info. Will DL and let you know how it goes.
    Ha, I was poking around looking at recorders and came across the tascam DR-08 on ebay from 99.00 to 149.00.....then I remembered this thread and sure enough, that's the one hopped recommended. So I went to the link above and they're now 69.00 with free shipping so mine's on it's way!

    Thanks for the tip hopped...no more buying fucking DAT tapes to run into a standalone will be nice~
    • CommentAuthorheadzilla
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2012

    RC, hopped, earlb, tous, etc.

    I also, took the plunge a few weeks ago and took the solid advice of hopped and purchased the TASCAM DR-08 for the low price.

    My next Yarn show is this Friday night in Wilmington, Delaware. I was thinking of trying to tape this show and was looking for any tips from the experts. I'm fairly inept with technology - think Austin Powers trying to place a phonograph needle on a CD - level of ineptitude.

    The setup at the World Cafe Live - Wilmington is cabaret style. I got the "make a reservation to eat here and we'll give you a table up front deal".

    Should the recorder be with me upfront ? or further from stage ? mounted on a tripod ? how high ?

    How many memory cards, batteries needed for show ?

    Are any veteran tapers going to this show ?

    Any, and all tips, are appreciated, even if it's to tell me to try another time.

    If by some miracle, I actually tape it and get something that halfway intelligible, I'll need even more help uploading to archives.com

    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2012

    I record at 24 bit, 48k sampling rate. At these settings, figure an hour per gigabyte. A fresh set of batteries or freshly charged rechargeables should be fine even for a long night.

    I'd run from the table if I were you. Unless you're practically on-stage, you should get good vocals from the PA. If you're not planning on getting too wild at your table, run it on a short tabletop tripod to get it up off the surface of the table. taperjeff and I both taped from a front table at Ashland Coffee & Tea and it turned out great.

    Watch your levels. You'll want to peak as close to 0 as possible without going over. I usually run peaking between -6 and -12. Yarn music varies pretty widely in dynamics, as there are very quiet and very loud songs. If they open with a quiet number, set your levels a little lower to account for the loud stuff. There is probably a red light that will indicate "clipping", or levels that go above 0db. A little light clipping is not an issue, but if the levels are over enough they will distort and you'll have an unlistenable recording.

    You can boost in post, but just remember if the recorder has a lot of self-noise, you will be amplifying that, too. I've had no issues with self-noise with my DR-07 or Sony PCM D50. Your recorder will make a seamless file split at 2gb. Don't worry about that. Just cut and paste in post.

    I don't see any other tapers on the list for Friday night. Most importantly, test your gear out at home in front of the stereo before you go to the show.
    • CommentAuthorheadzilla
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2012

    thanks for the tips, I'll follow them all.

    Your post, itself, is a confidence boost.

    I'm going to Godfrey Daniels on Saturday, as well, are there any tapers going to that show that you know of ?
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2012 edited
    I'm just looking at the list for Yarn under the Find A Taper forum on taperssection.com. Looks like Tim in Jersey will be there.

    Anybody that wants to learn more about taping, http://taperssection.com is the place where every question you have has been asked and answered. I am hoppedup over there too.
    Hey Headzilla,

    Rockingman aka Tom G. may be at the show if he is feeling well. He runs the same microphones as I do. You could run the deck on the line setting and patch out of his deck. You may need a mini male adapter to mini male adapter cable.

    Looking on taper section, the World Cafe has a balcony and a floor, but sometimes the balcony is not open. I agree with Hopped, you can try to run from one of the front tables or you may give the first row of the balcony if it is open and leave the deck on the balcony ledge.
    For running the internal mics, I would set the mic sensitivity to low. Yarn is loud enough you shouldn't have an issue with the mic sensitivity. Earlbny, what setting did you use? You can raise the levels in post production like Hopped said.

    for your recording settings, you should use either 44.1 kHz (or 441000 Hz) 16 bit--this is cd quality or 48 kHz (48000 Hz) 24 bit and the recorder will record as .wav. Internet archive doesn't take mp3 files, but converts the uploaded files in the linux ogg and mp3 as well as keeping the flac files. When you use post production software like audacity, it converts the .wav files to flac.

    My biggest piece of advice is the choice of the card size. Your directions or the tascam site should have a chart that shows the card size necessary for recording with the settings 44.1/16 bit or 48/24 bit. Look at the chart. I use a card large enough to store several shows on it in case I have mulitiple shows in separate cities and no time to download to a computer. A Yarn show is 2.5-3 hours these days. However, I usually start recording when I first seeing the first band member walk on stage and sometimes have 5 to ten minutes of recording lead time that I edit out afterwards. This way I don't have to worry about hitting record button at the right moment or checking my watch constantly through out the show to see if I have enough time for storage space and can enjoy the show. Also, sometimes I leave on deck at the board and can't get back and forth between the crowd.

    So, if you buy a card, my advice is to buy on large enough to store at least 10 hours for the 48 kHz/24 bit settings--which takes up the most storage space, so you can record three yarn shows or if you choose to record an opener or two.

    Let us know how your first taping experience is. I just realized that March 5 will be 20 years since I taped my first Grateful Dead Show at Hampton, VA!
    Great stuff, thanks you guys.

    ...so no UPS truck all afternoon but then, at 5:28, my regular dude swings down the long drive. I greeted him and took the package from B&H.....only to find that they first sent the wind screens I bought in a separate package! Wasn't listed as a backorder so I guess the deck'll come tomorrow.
    RC, I made the transistion from Dat to digital flash drive recorders a few years ago. I really enjoy not having to transfer the DAT tape in real time to another source. Saves much time uploading the file, doing the editing, and cutting the tracks. Save a ton of $$ not buying new blanks and less storage space.
    • CommentAuthorheadzilla
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2012

    Thanks for the recommendations, I'll make sure I get a larger card.

    The Wilmington World Cafe has two venues, the larger one is "downstairs" and has the balcony and a beautiful catherdral ceiling. The "upstairs" is the restaurant venue, a one step "platform" stage, that is where Yarn plays on Friday.
    headzilla, I just spoke to Tom Gambichler aka Rockingman and he said he was going to the World Cafe. He said you could patch out of him. You would use the line setting for patching. You'll need an 1/8" stereo to rca plug cable. here is a link, http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3449316 You may want to take a print out to radio shack. I went in to Radio shack and asked for a TRS cable a week ago and they tried to get me mp3 player. LOL! In case Tom bails at the last minute, be ready to use the internal mics. do you want me to pass along your real name to Tom?
    Recorder's working great....haven't picked up the CDwave software but I will. It was simple enough to move a wav file to the computer.

    hopped, jeff.....what would be your specific suggection for a bigger SD card? I'm thinking that 16Gb is def big enough for my needs but I'm a little confused. The ones i see at B&H like this one


    come with an adaptor....do I need this adapter? What have you guys found to be the best brand and size of card?
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2012
    RC , I have Sandisk cards in both of my Tascam recorders. I think the key is buying from a reputable dealer if you buy online. Lots of counterfeit stuff out there. If you record at 24/48 you'll get around 1 hour per gigabyte of storage. As cheap as cards have become, I'd go with a 16GB. My microSDHC came with an adapter so I could plug the card into the laptop. I just transfer via USB and leave the card in at all times. Those micro cards are too damn hard to handle for fat-fingered people. I have a class 10, 16GB Kingston in my still cam and it seems to work just fine.

    You can shop around and save a few bucks if you go with a class 4 or 6 card, which is more than adequate for audio.
    Well thanks so much for the advice. Looks like I have Yarn in a few weeks so I'll get it soon.

    Would it be beneficial to record at higher than 24/48?
    RC, I've been using class 4 and 6 cards with any problems, Kingston and Sandisk brands. I've found the Tascam product page to be helpful for additional product information. I know there are two card comparison charts on this page. http://tascam.com/product/dr-08/downloads/

    I never recorded higher than 24/48, but the higher kHz will capture more depth but require much more storage space.
    So I guess that's my question....given that space isn't an issue, why wouldn't you record at the highest level? Does it then take longer to UL and Dl for no real gain in quality?

    Again, thanks for the link....I'll check it out~
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2012
    There's a debate over on taperssection.com over whether to run 24/48 or 24/96. It is complete with a lot of technical info (and misinformation as always) I don't really comprehend. Some folks say you're taking up a lot more space (and processing time) to record parts of the sonic spectrum that your ears can't even hear if you run 96 or 192. Others say why not record at higher sampling rates if you have the hard drive space. I've never done a comp to see if I could hear a difference, maybe I should. 24/96 takes about double the amount of space that 24/48 does. If you tape a lot, it doesn't take long to fill up an external hard drive if you save all the original un-mastered files and the mastered file sets.

    I run 24/48 all the time now. I don't burn CDs anymore (CD audio is 16/44.1) and don't dither/down-sample anymore for those that do. Some folks run 24/44.1 because they can dither to 16 bit without having to down-sample. Others run at 24/88.2 so mathematically the sampling rate is cut in half if they down-sample for CD quality audio. I have no idea if these are valid concerns. Just one of the many questions that seem to have a lot of opinions but no clear answers.
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2012
    I bought a DR-03 a few months back and have had hit-or-miss luck with it. I know it's all about placement (well, and the room) but I've had a few shows where it's just way too distorted.

    This thing has condenser mics where the DR-08 has omnis.

    Other than that, not sure the difference.

    Will the mics make that much of a difference?

    Yarn content? I taped the Mallett Brothers (from Portland, ME) this weekend and the last time I was that blown away by a band I'd never heard of was Yarn. Definitely worth checking out.
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2012
    The DR-03 has omni mics. The DR-08 has cardioids. Cardioids are more directional and are generally better in chatty rooms or rooms where the sound is not that great. Cardioids can be pointed at the stacks if a room is particularly bad or has an odd PA set-up. Omnis capture more sound from all directions, making them less ideal for audience recording unless the room has really great sound and few chatterbugs. I use my omnis on-stage and outdoors for the most part. Cardioid internals were the reason I recommended the DR-08 for those taping without external mics. And the low price tag makes it good for someone who may not get into taping or tapes rarely.

    tous, I didn't download the manual for the DR-03, so I don't know the SPL (Sound Pressure Level) those internals will take. I imagine you should be able to set the record level to where it's not clipping unless you are standing in front of the speakers at a heavy metal show. If you are using omnis in a shirt pocket, closer to the PA stack is probably better.
    • CommentAuthorStoney
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2012
    Jumping in to say a real big thank you from someone who reaps the benefits of all your efforts... I am the Runner formerly known as stony.... (name was changed to protect the innocent (my kids would be so pissed if they discovered I'm telling stories about them on here... if they stumble in here they would have associated the old name with me immediately) Anyway, thanks you guys, really can't thank you all enough. Love that I can relive a show, or visit one I couldn't get too thanks to your time, money, & effort. Also want to thank Tous for the additional tip on Mallett Bros. I am coming down off a Bethlehem, pa yarn high and I just can't listen to a recorded show or studio right now... nice to have someone to check out. listening now... and enjoying.
    I second Stoney's sentiment - a big thanks to you guys for putting your time, money, and efforts into figuring all this out! Thanks for the recommendation, tous - they sound like our kind of music!
    Well I went back to B&H Photo and picked up a sandisk class 6 32GB for $37.00

    Might be more than I need but I'm looking ahead to three show runs and perhaps a weekend festival. It'll be nice to have no capacity limits whatsoever. Thanks for the info you guys~

    ...and stoney and Amy...y'all are quite welcome. For tapers it's always a bit of a pay-it-forward deal. Thanks to the band and thanks to all the music that other people have given me~
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2012
    Definitely format and test the card in your recorder before going to a show. Just in case.
    Will do...thanks.
    I agree with you RC. I started taping twenty years ago yesterday, March 5, 1992, when the Grateful Dead played Hampton Coliseum. I had purchased a Sony D3 DAT player from the Oade Brothers and had to have some other tapers show me how to use the machine since it arrived the day before. I started taping because getting copies was a real pain. DAT was really expensive and with cassette tapes one had to worry about generational loss between copies. The hiss on each copy grew from the master. Usually tapers were overwhelmed in making copings and distribution relied on the postal service. Much easier with one edit and upload to the archive. Hail Brewster Kahle.

    My most rewarding experience came last weekend. Last September, I met James Justin Burke after a performance at the Bristol rhythm and roots festival and asked if his group was on the archive. I recorded Justin James and Co at Clementine's last November and posted it on etree with 3 downloads. Justin James Burke contacted me and asked how they could get on the archive. A couple emails later and JJ and Co were on the archive. I was surprised Justin james Burke remembered the conversation and was glad to assist.

    Great story~

    My buddy Jack bought a D5 Sony cassette recorder in the summer of '93 but he upgraded to I believe a D7 DAT recorder by that fall. He added the AT822 for the fall run at Boston Garden and we taped all of those. I remember that I ran his D5 for those so I still have that whole run on cassette masters...13 of them! 13 because on one of the nights, come flip time I was tripping balls so hard all I could think to do was open a new tape! I still chuckle over that one.

    By the following year, he added the AT 4071 guns 'cause as you'd expect, the AT 822 ain't much for arenas. Then the Beyer pre-amp. So it's been 19 years for us.

    Def ready to move past that DAT technology but man it was the shit for a long time......3hrs without flipping! Now I'll have 14hrs without flipping!
    Well I've got CD Wave installed and as you guys said, it's prety intuitive. I have the whole file split up and saved in wav and then in flac. I can't seem to save it in a size that will fit 72 minutes of music on one disc. Is that because of the high rate I recorded at? Help.....No I'm not smarter than a fifth grade audiophile!

    emptypockets....when I figure this all out I can send you Cabinet's set if you'd like.
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2012
    RC, a CD has a limitation on length of audio and size of data. CD audio is only 16/44.1 though, so 72 minutes should fit if you are burning an audio CD. You should be able to burn 800mb to a data CD. I seem to remember you are running at 24/96? Unless you downsample and dither, you can't burn an audio CD anyway.
    hmmmm, so if I record higher than 16/44 I cannot burn it to disc? I''ve got it burned from the standalone on one disc in my old manner so I'm surprised that I cannot.
    RC, Cabinet has an LMA site if you wish to upload or you can send the disc. No rush.